Informal Joint Scrutiny Meeting for the Conwy & Denbighshire Youth Justice Service

Minutes of a meeting of the Informal Joint Scrutiny Meeting for the Conwy & Denbighshire Youth Justice Service held by video conference on Tuesday, 18 March 2025 at 1.00 pm.

PRESENT
Councillors Antony Bertola, Frank Bradfield, Joan Butterfield, Simon Croft, Sharon Doleman, Pauline Edwards, Louise Emery, Hannah Fleet, Jon Harland, Brian Jones, Abdul Khan, Paul Luckock, Bernice McLoughlin, Jo Nuttall, Angie O’Grady, Kay Redhead, Austin Roberts and Elizabeth Roberts. Lead Members in attendance at the invitation of members: Councillors Cathy Augustine and Diane King.
ALSO PRESENT
Rhun ap Gareth (Chief Executive Officer Conwy County Borough Council (CCBC)), Nicola Stubbins (Corporate Director: Social Services and Education, Denbighshire County Council (DCC)), Jenny Williams (Strategic Director – Social Care and Education, CCBC), Stephanie Robbins (Head of Children, Family and Safeguarding Services, CCBC), Rhiain Morelle (Head of Children’s Services, DCC), Anest Gray Frazer (Service Manager Conwy and Denbighshire Youth Justice Service (YJS)), Sam Owen (Operational Manager Partnerships, YJS), Fran Botfield (Operational Manager – Prevention Team, YJS), Donna Hughes (Operational Manager - Statutory Team, YJS), Mark Brierley (Administrative Assistant, YJS), Mark Cox (Head of Operations for Wales, Youth Justice Board (YJB), Lacey Meredith (Residential Women’s Centre Project Manager (Wales) Probation Service), Gareth Evans, (Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board (BCUHB) – Integrated Health Community Director for Conwy and Denbighshire), Rhian Evans (Scrutiny Coordinator (DCC) and Dawn Hughes (Scrutiny and Committee Services Officer CCBC). Observers: Councillors Cheryl Carlisle, David Carr, Gwennol Ellis, Julie Fallon, Bobby Feeley, Alan Hunter, Charlie McCoubrey and Nia Owen.

APOLOGIES

Apologies for absence were received from Councillors Gail Jones, Arwel Roberts and Elfed Williams along with Graham Boase (Chief Executive of Denbighshire County Council), Andy Jones (National Probation Service for Wales) and Chief Inspector Trystan Bevan (North Wales Police).

DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST

No members declared any interests of a personal, or a personal and prejudicial nature, in any of the business items listed for discussion.

APPOINTMENT OF CHAIR

Nominations were sought from amongst the elected members for an individual to chair the meeting. Councillor Simon Croft was nominated and seconded for the position. No other nomination was received and elected members present unanimously:

Resolved: to appoint Councillor Simon Croft to chair the meeting.

URGENT MATTERS AS AGREED BY THE CHAIR

No items of an urgent nature had been drawn to the attention of the Scrutiny Officers or the Chair prior to the commencement of the meeting.

Prior to proceeding with the meeting’s business the Chair advised those in attendance that the meeting had been convened for the purpose of considering the progress achieved to date by all partners in delivering the agreed Improvement Plan, developed in response to the recommendations made by His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Probation following the joint inspection of Conwy and Denbighshire’s Youth Justice Service in 2024. Officers advised that as the meeting was being held on an informal basis the minutes would be presented to both ‘parent’ committees, Conwy County Borough Council’s Social Care and Health Overview & Scrutiny Committee and Denbighshire County Council’s Partnerships Scrutiny Committee, for approval.

HIS MAJESTY'S INSPECTORATE OF PROBATION (HMIP) JOINT INSPECTION IMPROVEMENT PLAN OF CONWY & DENBIGHSHIRE YOUTH JUSTICE SERVICE

Denbighshire County Council’s (DCC) Lead Member for Education, Children and Families, Councillor Diane King, introduced the report (previously circulated) which provided members with an update on the progress achieved to date in delivering the Youth Justice Service’s (YJS) Improvement Plan in response to the recommendations made by HMIP following its inspection of the Service in 2024. During her introduction the Lead Member emphasised that whilst significant progress had been made in addressing the Inspectorate’s recommendations, a fact acknowledged by the Youth Justice Board for Wales, there continued to be several strategic challenges. These in the main were down to issues relating to partner agency resourcing, which were affecting the pace of achieving progress in addressing the recommendations involving both the Health Board and the Probation Service.

Councillor King requested that her appreciation of Councillor Cathy Augustine, Conwy County Borough Council’s (CCBC) Cabinet Member for Children, Families & Safeguarding and CCBC officers’ leadership of this crucial service during the most challenging few years be placed on record. She emphasised that both Conwy and Denbighshire local authorities acknowledged and shared an equal role in continuing to provide child centred services to some of their most vulnerable children and young people. Councillor Augustine echoed Councillor King’s views on the significant progress made in delivering against five of the recommendations, along with her disappointment with the progress achieved to date in relation to addressing the two recommendations requiring substantial input from the Health Board and the Probation Service.

Conwy & Denbighshire YJS Manager via a presentation provided members with an overview of each of the Inspection’s seven recommendations and which Service or Agency was tasked with progressing the actions to address them. In addition, she provided an overview of the Improvement Plan drawn up to address the recommendations, specifically the five main areas of focus identified with the objective of securing better targeted and streamlined services for the vulnerable young people who required intervention and support. The five areas of focus being:

Governance

Leadership

Prevention

Victim work

Disproportionality

Members were advised that since the Improvement Plan’s approval significant progress had been achieved by the YJS and its local authority partners in delivering the actions allocated to them in the Plan. Considerable progress had also been achieved in relation to the recommendations linked to the arrangements relating to the Out of Court Disposal process, which was an important tool used, in conjunction with North Wales Police, for addressing early stages of low-level offending behaviour. Following the inspection, the Conwy and Denbighshire YJS Service Manager alongside other YJS Managers across North Wales instigated a regional review with North Wales Police and the support of the Centre for Justice and Innovation. This review resulted in a new Regional North Wales Out of Court Process being drafted. Initially it received the approval of the Conwy & Denbighshire YJS Management Board, prior to receiving subsequent approval by the North Wales Criminal Justice Board. In addition, a communication strategy had also been agreed so that all partners were notified of the changes.

Nevertheless, the majority of the HMIP recommendations emanating from the original inspection were aimed at the YJS’ strategic partners. It was proving more difficult to progress the delivery of these actions due to significant resourcing challenges within partner agencies, namely the Health Service and the Probation Service. This in turn had prevented the appointment of secondments of a health worker and probation officer as well as speech, language, and communication support. Following extensive work between YJS staff and Health Board officials a revised job description had been agreed for the health worker. It was pleasing to report that the Health Service had recently appointed to the Health Worker secondment role, with the appointed person currently undertaking their induction training. The Probation Officer secondment continued to be a challenge, due to a shortage of qualified and trained staff – there was a shortage of suitably qualified staff for this role across England and Wales, it was not a North Wales specific issue. Following the escalation of concerns by the Conwy & Denbighshire YJS Management Board to the Chief Executives of both local authorities their concerns regarding the lack of qualified probation officers had been raised with HMIP.

The YJS Data Officer provided an overview of non-reoffending statistics following YJS early intervention work. This data was used on a regular basis to evaluate the effectiveness of intervention work and as means of identifying developing trends. Current statistics were encouraging with 76% of those who had accessed the Service and had their cases closed within the last 18 months not reoffending, and 93% of those who had been given a second chance not reoffending. Disappointingly, the rate of not reoffending was not as encouraging for those whose cases had been closed for over 18 months, with 54% not reoffending and 57% of those who had been given a Youth Conditional Caution (YCC) not reoffending. The data sets showed no marked differences in reoffending rates between males or females, or those residing in CCBC or DCC county areas.

Responding to members’ questions the YJS Manager:

advised that the YJS Management Board had both a proactive and a reactive role to undertake in delivering youth justice services. To do this effectively it needed to be able to access the services required with ease. The recent appointment into the Health Worker role was a crucial one, as this individual would be working across both Health and the YJS, which should enable faster access to services such as Children and Adolescent Mental Health Services (CAMHS)

provided assurances that in her role as the Service’s manager she was jointly supervised by both CCBC and DCC’s statutory Directors of Social Services. In addition, the manager and other YJS staff had easy access to senior Children’s Services personnel in both counties.

emphasised that no children/young people were, or had at any time been, waiting to be allocated a YJS named worker. The delays which had been encountered related to access to CAMHS and neurodevelopmental services. Young people referred to the YJS had a high rate of engagement with the YJS itself.

Speech, language, literacy, numeracy, and communication skills formed part of the YJS assessment of a child/young person’s needs upon referral to the Service. These assessments informed the Service’s decisions in relation to service provision and their plans for each individual.

advised that the Youth Justice Blueprint for Wales outlined the requirement for the criminal justice system to first and foremost safeguard young people. This Blueprint ensured that the Police had to adopt a child’s rights approach, which meant that young people were treated as children first and offenders second. The objective of this approach was to provide early access to intervention services to support the young person to understand what they had done, the impact of their actions, and educate them going forward to ensure that they did not make similar mistakes in future. This approach was helping to reduce the number of children in police custody and giving them a second chance by educating them.

confirmed that the Service was encountering more challenging behaviour in some young people since the pandemic. Effective partnership working around targeted intervention work would be key in securing sustainable positive outcomes.

emphasised that safeguarding was a corporate responsibility. The YJS operated and adhered to the all-Wales child safeguarding and exploitation policies and procedures. It worked closely with both local authorities’ social care services and Barnardo’s in relation to child trafficking duties, for example when children/young people were apprehended for transporting/dealing illegal drugs. The approach was, wherever possible, to treat the child/young person as a victim of crime rather than the perpetrator. For this purpose, the Conwy & Denbighshire YJS worked closely with each authority’s child exploitation panels to safeguard the victim.

confirmed that prior to the HMIP’s inspection the YJS was in an extremely challenging staffing position. Post the inspection, with the full and continued support of the YJS Management Board and the re-defining of some roles, they had been able to resolve the staffing situation. It was now pleasing to report that for the first time in seven years the Service had a full complement of staff. During the next twelve months the Service would be streamlining processes, consolidating learning, and exploring ways of improving communication as all staff were passionate about delivering outcomes.

The BCUHB’s Integrated Health Community Director for Conwy & Denbighshire:

agreed that access to neurological and neurodevelopmental services were key. However, the hub and spoke model for the Children’s Neurodevelopmental Service was currently in the early stages of its development and would need some time to establish and embed.

advised that approximately 60% of children and young people receiving services from the YJS presented speech and language needs. He gave an undertaking to urgently raise the need for the YJS to have easy and effective access to CAMHS, neurodevelopmental, speech, language, and communication services with the Vice-Chair of the Health Board, who was the Health Board’s mental health champion.

Prior to bringing the discussion to a close members acknowledged the effectiveness of the strategic Out of Court Disposal process but requested that their disappointment that North Wales Police had not sent a representative to the meeting be noted. It was evident that this early intervention approach seemed to be realising positive sustainable outcomes for the individuals concerned.

All in attendance acknowledged the YJS’ efforts and achievements to date in addressing the HMIP’s recommendations and were of the view that it would be beneficial for a meeting to be reconvened in twelve months’ time to further review progress against the Improvement Plan. Therefore, at the conclusion of a comprehensive discussion it was:

Recommended: subject to the observations made, that the Informal Joint Scrutiny Meeting for the Conwy & Denbighshire Youth Justice Service –

acknowledge the progress achieved to date against the Youth Justice Service’s (YJS) Management Board’s Improvement Plan and His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Probation’s (HMIP) recommendations;

that each local authority monitor the YJS’s Improvement Plan through their internal processes; and

that a further progress report be presented to an Informal Joint Scrutiny Meeting for the Conwy and Denbighshire’s Youth Justice Service in 12 months’ time.

Meeting concluded at 2.55pm